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Poco Forums • View topic - Update!

Update!

Discussion not related specifically to one of the topics below

Moderators: Eric, Tomas, robin

Postby Tomas » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:38 am

Gleason Pace wrote:Mulberry went bankrupt and has resurfaced as open source. Traffic in the Mulberry programmer's discussion group has just about trickled away. There was hope there that some requester of new features would be willing to pay a programmer's wage for them. Oh, Dear.

I agree with some others here that improved message editing and Imap durabilty are key to Poco's economic viability under any name.

It's interesting that you mention IMAP as the key.
It's IMHO very small minority of users that actually use IMAP.

So business-wise, it would be much wiser (I'm not talking about Pocomail, but email clients in general) to declare email client POP-only, to stop losing time with time-demanding IMAP implementation. (Unless you want to fight in the IMAP market niche. IMHO IMAP niche is much bigger on Mac and Unix systems than on Windows.)

Mulberry, maybe I got it all wrong, but I think Mulberry was supposed to be THE IMAP client, at least I was told so. And great IMAP support didn't lead to any spectacular success in terms of adoption, even if it's open source now.

Again, I'm not at all wishing to imply that Pocomail shouldn't improve IMAP. It's an important feature.

Just that the business logic, and the logic of the market place, which is what decides whether product will survive or not, lies elsewhere. Technical aspects are important, but IMHO other aspects play more important role in the product survival on the market.
Tomas
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Postby Gleason Pace » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:21 am

Tomas wrote:I agree with some others here that improved message editing and Imap durabilty are key to Poco's economic viability under any name.

It's interesting that you mention IMAP as the key.
It's IMHO very small minority of users that actually use IMAP.
[/quote]

The number is growing. The advantage is that you can access your email from anywhere and with any client, stored in folder structures as necessary. The cripling disadvantage of pop is that email stored locally is at risk to hard drive failure, OS failure, etc. This can happen to Imap servers too, but when you have redundant servers in various parts of the world (like with Fastmail), you are pretty safe.

So for people who travel and have large amounts of stored messages (I have 20,000+), Imap is the only real choice. And who buys high performance emial clients when there are several good free choices? People with special needs like these.

Tomas wrote:So business-wise, it would be much wiser (I'm not talking about Pocomail, but email clients in general) to declare email client POP-only, to stop losing time with time-demanding IMAP implementation. (Unless you want to fight in the IMAP market niche. IMHO IMAP niche is much bigger on Mac and Unix systems than on Windows.)


You are right, it takes a large effort (years) to do Imap well. I am not convinced that doing Imap poorly is better than not doing it at all.

Tomas wrote:Mulberry, maybe I got it all wrong, but I think Mulberry was supposed to be THE IMAP client, at least I was told so. And great IMAP support didn't lead to any spectacular success in terms of adoption, even if it's open source now.


Mulberry has very rudimentary html support, and editor issues. Also, even though the Imap implementation is impressive in completeness, it is not trouble free.
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Status?

Postby ChrisKnight » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:36 am

Well it certainly is nice to see Slaven posting again. I had wondered if it wasn't just going to be another rare Slaven sighting. Slaven, glad you are back and glad to see that we will have that long waited for update.

While I understand there are some who complain about updates, there are those who like to see them with some regularity specially regarding bug fixes. For those who don't like regular updates, they don't HAVE to update, but the option is there if they desire the new functionality and/or bug fix.

I would like to know if this update is still going to be released at the end of the month? I assume that September is the month and not August as I had originally thought when I first read you comment in another thread some time ago, as obviously August has long past.

In this update, can I expect to see expansion of the PocoScript language? Bug fixes in scripts, events and filters? Additions that will allow us to more easily deal with the recent spamming techniques? Additions that will allow more scripting control with the features of Barca that are not part of PocoMail? Better Unicode support?

Hopefully you can answer yes to these questions. I imagine the majority of the Barca and PocoMail users do not use much scripting though it is the primary reason I use it. I would even be interested in being a beta tester with particular focus on scripts, filters and events.

Regards,
~Chris
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Re: Status?

Postby Eric » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:44 am

ChrisKnight wrote:I would like to know if this update is still going to be released at the end of the month?
The beta will start in October, as mentionned by Slaven. :)
I would even be interested in being a beta tester with particular focus on scripts, filters and events.
I guess it will be announced here, so you can send a message to become a beta tester.

Can't answer the rest, so I'll leave it up to Slaven.

See you in the beta section Chris, if you make it there. ;)
Eric
 

Postby ChrisKnight » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:18 pm

Hi Eric,

Where did Slaven say October? I'm not doubting you and I don't stop in here much as not much ever seems to happen but the last thing I remember reading that mentioned a time frame said, "I'm cutting it close with my promise to update you all at the end of this month..." and that was posted by Slaven on August 31st. I didn't find anything with a quick search.

Also, I looked for info about betas. I know there is a member only area, but the faqs don't mention anything about how to become one. I quick search didn't yield any obviously correct results either. Care to tell me what the procedure is? I would like to get in.

Thanks,
~Chris
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Postby lian » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:40 pm

I'm interested too...
my blog (illustration, comics, SF and my work in french) : http://www.li-an.fr/blog
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Postby Gleason Pace » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:59 am

ChrisKnight wrote:Hi Eric,

Where did Slaven say October? I'm not doubting you and I don't stop in here much as not much ever seems to happen but the last thing I remember reading that mentioned a time frame said, "I'm cutting it close with my promise to update you all at the end of this month..." and that was posted by Slaven on August 31st. I didn't find anything with a quick search.

Also, I looked for info about betas. I know there is a member only area, but the faqs don't mention anything about how to become one. I quick search didn't yield any obviously correct results either. Care to tell me what the procedure is? I would like to get in.

Thanks,
~Chris


Those of us who would like to see big fixes can perhaps be informed by this from Slaven

>I also hear from a lot of people how they desperately need >exactly what PocoMail and Barca is right now

Those of us who would like to see improvements to pocoscripting might notice that there have been no new scripts made available for download for 4 years. Yes, there was some concern voiced about this from script writers a few years back and a promise that more releases were immanent.

Slaven might have said Oct in private email, but what I see here is a promise that a beta will be released to testers in two weeks. That was the 31 Aug message.
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Postby Eric » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:41 am

Hi Chris,
ChrisKnight wrote:Where did Slaven say October?
Slaven wrote:Posted: Mon Sep 01
Tomorrow 4.8 starts its private beta for a couple of weeks then it will appear in our Beta forum for proper testing. I'll post the feature change list soon as well.
Unless I'm mistaken that should mean October.
Correct me if I'm wrong Slaven. :lol:
Care to tell me what the procedure is? I would like to get in.
In the past we had to send an email to Slaven mentionning our forum name, registration code and the reason we would want to become a beta tester.
Not sure if it's still the same procedure, but you could always try.
Hope that helps you too lian. :wink:
Gleason Pace wrote:Slaven might have said Oct in private email, but what I see here is a promise that a beta will be released to testers in two weeks. That was the 31 Aug message.
He never said anything by email to me, so we keep guessing.
Where did he tell you two weeks time?
Must have missed something here. :?
Eric
 

Postby blakelyg » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:47 am

Gleason Pace wrote:Slaven might have said Oct in private email, but what I see here is a promise that a beta will be released to testers in two weeks. That was the 31 Aug message.
.

I re-read his post and Slaven indicated that it would be released in a private beta on Sept 1st (it was) and then to Public beta in a couple of weeks. I would assume that would be if there are no major issues discovered in the private beta. (No I do not know if any bugs were discovered or not).

G
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Postby lian » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:44 pm

Eric wrote:Not sure if it's still the same procedure, but you could always try.
Hope that helps you too lian. :wink:

OK, I will wait for the release of this beta. Maybe we got some more information about how to become betatester...
my blog (illustration, comics, SF and my work in french) : http://www.li-an.fr/blog
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Postby Tomas » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:53 pm

ChrisKnight wrote:Also, I looked for info about betas. I know there is a member only area, but the faqs don't mention anything about how to become one. I quick search didn't yield any obviously correct results either. Care to tell me what the procedure is? I would like to get in.


You can ask through Helpdesk http://www.pocosystems.com/forum/ or email from Pocomail/Barca menu Help > Email support.
Include your forum nick name with the request. That's for public beta testing (that didn't start yet for this upcoming update).

If anybody is interested, please reconsider whether applying just out of curiosity (as for what are the news) or if you are really interested in beta testing. While Poco beta releases are usually pretty stable, still despite chances being low anything can happen during beta testing, from minor problems up to data lost.
Beta testing is only for those who are "prepared" :)
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Postby J-Mac » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:12 pm

Hey Slaven! Sounds like you have not had an easy year at all. I'm sorry to hear that - I am not a great believer in that old adage, "That which does not kill you makes you stronger". (Stronger? Shoot, it just makes you near dead!)

Really, I hope everything is looking up for you with the new ownership. You deserve a break!

Been a long time since I posted here. I stopped using Pocomail and Barca about a year or so ago; most of my email now is in IMAP accounts and I couldn't handle the way Pocomail deals with IMAP folders in such a limited manner. Hopefully that will change in the near future. I have a few accounts with Fastmail using only their IMAP servers, so I need good IMAP support. HTML and message forwarding problems were also obstacles for me, though I have had multiple Pocomail/Barca licenses for quite a while now, starting with Pocomail 3 and then the beta team for the initial Barca offering.

I have checked in regularly to see what changes/updates have been made available, and each time I have been more and more surprised at the lack of any new releases; or at least substantial releases. This is the first time in a long time that I have seen significant news here!

I look forward to trying the new version, and especially V.5.

Take care,

Jim
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Postby Slaven » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:28 am

Just to clarify: 4.8 doesn't have any major IMAP improvements, it's for 5.0 that we want to build up IMAP. Also, the private beta has been going on for a month and I'm implementing stuff being reported back; the idea is to shake off more obvious problems before opening it up to wide beta since there is no point having everyone report same obvious problems - private betas do that a lot more efficiently.

Thanks for all your comments too, nice to see some of you around again :)
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suggestion for 4.8

Postby Gert750 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:51 pm

Hello Slaven,

I can totally understand you will only implement "small" new features in 4.8 and bigger features will have to wait for 5.0.

While I am very happy with Barca 2.5 (and earlier Poco releases), I am always annoyed by two things Barca does that (for example) gmail handles fine.

Scenario 1:
1. Someone (john) sends me an email
2. I (Gert) reply to john with an answer
3. 30 seconds later, I remember "I should have added xxx to my answer"
4. I reply to my original answer (not his original email, but my answer from step 2) to send the extra info. Barca/Poco shows "Gert" (me) as the TO email address, and I have to change it to "John" (if I remember/notice)

Scenario 2 (a small variation):
1. Someone (john) sends me an email
2. I (Gert) reply to john with an answer
3. 30 seconds later, I remember "I should have added xxx to my answer"
4. I reply-to-all to my original answer (from step 2) to send the extra info. Barca/Poco shows "Gert" (me) and "John" as the TO email address, and I have to remove "Gert" from the TO email address.

It would be great if the next release would recognize my own email addresses and would not automatically put them in the "TO:" field when I reply or reply-all.

Thanks for considering,
Gert
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Re: suggestion for 4.8

Postby Flashfox » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:18 am

Gert750 wrote: - - - snip - - -

It would be great if the next release would recognize my own email addresses and would not automatically put them in the "TO:" field when I reply or reply-all.

Thanks for considering,
Gert


FYI, the way PM and Barca2 handles this is very similar to how Ourlook 2003 and 2007 work. It is also how Becky2 manages the "to" field in these cases. Now I do not know how all other E-mail clients work, but I assume that this is a standard method.

Your suggestion is interesting... :shock:
Flashfox
 

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