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Poco Forums • View topic - filter in OnAdd Event fails

filter in OnAdd Event fails

Help and advice on using Barca

Moderators: Eric, Tomas, robin

filter in OnAdd Event fails

Postby ChrisKnight » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:41 am

Hoping someone might have an answer for this.

I've created several filters to be run manually, each is designed to move emails into other folders depending on the filter criteria. All filters work as expected when run manually on selected messages by pressing Ctrl-F6.

The problem though, if I create an OnAdd event that runs the manual filters the messages are selected correctly but copied instead of moved as specified in the filter definition. The copy goes to right folder and leaves an original behind in the folder the event is set to trigger.

Trying to find a work-around I created the same filters as single filters to be triggered by the onAdd event. Same incorrect behavior, the messages get copied instead of moved.

I really like the idea of events but I keep finding problems when I try and use the onAdd event. I can work around this by triggering them manually but I don't want to, a script won't help me here because I'm moving email around in my folders not recieving or sending it. Now that Slavin made fix for the download issue I've got 2495 emails to sort through and the vast *$#!ing majority are spam that I'de like to organize automatically so my spam scripts can send them to the appropriate authorities.

-Chris
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Postby Tomas » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:59 am

Hi Chris, I'm sorry all I can say is that the OnAdd event is probably buggy, it seems, judging from the two issues you reported with them. Not many people are using events, so it probably went unnoticed :(
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Postby ChrisKnight » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:23 pm

Hi Tomas,

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry to hear not many people use the events, like pocoscript it is part of what make Barca and PocoMail unique and why I continue to use it.

I hope that if it is buggy that Slavin can fix it in the next update. I've read in these forums he is not real keen on updates and that apparently there are users who don't like updates but for these people, if they don't want to update they aren't forced to, and for all of us who'd like to see a couple more things fixed and some functional improvements beyond the Vista stuff. It sure would be nice see more more frequent updates, specially in regards to improvements in spam warfare. I'm not knocking the most recent update and I applaud the relatively quick delivery of the fix for bad email header issue. I just want more.

Why is there not a forum for bugs and tracking of the bugs and their priority and progress? And a forum for feature requests where people can sugest features and vote on other peoples suggestions? Sure we can submit them via email and then wehre do they go? I've read on the forum that it is suggested to keep requesting features again and again. That hardley seems a good use of anyones time. Once should be enough on a forum and let the developers read them and see what people think is a good idea surely there could be some great feedback on this forum from all the users.


I seem to have hijacked my own thread.. :oops:

Sorry for the rant, it is just incredibly frustrating when a tool one uses so much like email doesn't work the way it is supposed to plus the spammers seem to be winning the spam war and I strongly desire more weapons :twisted: that take less of my time fight back.

~Chris
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Postby Tomas » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:46 am

he is not real keen on updates and that apparently there are users who don't like updates

I don't remember reading anywhere that Slaven is not keen on updates. As for the users who don't like updates, I think the post (if it was the same that you read) was in the sense that there are users who are still happy using old versions like Pocomail 2 and Pocomail 3.

What was getting in the way to most of the updates was a problematic third party control (editor/viewer), which is now being replaced by another one. It's a long process as that control pretty much influences every part of the code. That might be the major reasons why we are not seeing updates and fixes that we would like to.

There was a bug tracker in the past, I don't remember why it was closed. I'm not arguing against it, just from what I remember as a user of many applications, the only people keen on having one are open source developers. I was present when public bug tracker was suggested for several other commercial applications, and all the developers rejected that suggestion. Again, not arguing against it, it's good idea especially from a user point, just to say that it's far from common.

If you submit feature or bug report through helpdesk, it goes to developers. If it's posted in a forum, Pocosystems staff read the forums, eventhough they will not necessarily reply to most of the messages.

Of course there is always someone who says "keep requesting it over and over", it's everywhere as far as I can tell, not only in Pocomail, but all around me, in politics, in workplace, some of my family members do that too.
But it's not that those features that are repeated all over, are the only ones that get implemented.
IMHO all it's about is that it's just one of the common "persuasion strategies", aka "he who shouts the most, gets most", and some people think it's effective.
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Postby ChrisKnight » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:50 pm

Hello Tomas,

Maybe I assumed to much when I said I don't think Slaven is keen on updates but you made me go back and find the post. It is one started by Tusi, who I believe has given up on PocoMail do to character set issues that caused her significant grief that were not addressed in a manner timely enough for her, if I followed the thread correctly, she waited over a year. At some point in this thread Slaven posted, I quote him here; "Here's a few more cents from me: overall, we're not really fans of frequent updates as it upsets the majority of our users".
So I equated the not really fans of to not keen.

I think it can speak well of a program if people are content with old versions, I also suspect those people don't use as many of the feature that others do. And are happy just to receive and read their email and write their email and then send it. My mom is one of those users, anything other than that would just confuse her. The idea of writing a script or attaching logic to a mailbox is not even fathomable to her. For me it is why I use Barca and not one of the other many email apps out there, the most widely used ones I encounter on clients machines are in fact free and these users don't see any reason to use anything else. Thats fine. To each their own.

The part that gets me though is the very reason I choose Barca (I started with PocoMail before Barca existed) is the "power" features the scriptability being key. And I fear this is not a priority to the developers, for example, there are still no script extensions for the Calendar, diary, or notes. In fact, off the top of my head I can't think of any new script commands since I started using PocoScript.

This is really the big reason I want to see some way to know what is being worked on and having an opportunity to vote for which bugs get priority and what features I would actually use.

You are quite right about the bug tracking for open source. I can't think of any conventional commercial app or shareware app that is not open source and has bug tracking. And I think it is a bad idea that they don't. Takes a developer or qa person just minutes to enter the status of a bug (when I'm developing I have several lists I constantly update to track my status, bugs just one of them) and conveys a world of info to the few who actually care, because the vast majority of users don't really use applications that fully and don't tend to find the bugs, the few who do find them want to know what is going to be done about them and when. Like forums, I bet most users never come to this forum and then a fraction of that will actually post. I've come to the forums when I wanted to know what was going on, the "news" on the website rarely ever gets updated and even the forum here devoted to news doesn't have a post this year if I recall correctly, so I have to read around to try and find out what is going on. The comment you made to me here about the issue with a third party viewer is the first I've heard of it, I can relate. I've had issues with third partly Delphi components that drove me to all cap emails. It is nice to know that, I don't know what Barca is developed in but I know that a tightly integrated component will take work to replace and is prone to a lost of bugs where something was missed.

I don't think that bug tracking is only useful for users. If you are the developer and you code something then run it (assuming it compiled ok) and if more that one thing don't behave like you expect, you make a list and then start debugging and checking off the bugs. All developers have to decide which bugs are most likely to cause problems and these get the time required to track them down and fix them. Others are just deemed too expensive to fix. Here a user can help the developer by saying, "hey this _ _ _ bug is costing me an hour every time I try to do X" and other users can voice if it effects their use or not. If the ratio between cost to fix and number of users who will not buy or switch to the Bat is great enough, it gets fixed, if not the bug is marked 'not yet important enough to fix' and a potential new user doesn't have to waste their time download and trying out the program or worse waste their money to find the program has a problem they didn't uncover in their trial (if they tried it). Assuming they do their research and read the bug tracker.


One thing I've noticed happening more and more are individual developers or teams that have blogs where they communicate what is going on and people can subscribe and comment.

I've never been one to shout the most. Personally when someone keeps shouting at me I tune them out until something happens and can't. i.e. Boss to me; "User X says her monitor burst into flame and you have been ignoring her emails every five minutes for the last two weeks complaining of a strange odor and zapping sound...." But you've given me an idea anyway. When I get a bit more time I'll post a new thread.

Anyway, all this disorganized long windedness up on my soapbox calling out for more communication from PSI has me worn out.

:D

~Chris
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Postby chrisretusn » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:19 am

Not sure what the specifics of what you are attempting. Maybe this will give you some ideas.

I have had success in using OnAdd events using scripts. I set up filters to move the messages to specified a folder/sub-folders that have the OnAdd event associated. The filter moves the message to the folder and then the OnAdd event takes over to act on the message.

As an example; I have a series of filters (Incoming) that move my Yahoo Groups messages to their respective sub-folders (one sub-folder for each group) under my Yahoo Group folder. I have a script attached to an OnAdd event that runs when a message is added to my Yahoo Groups folder and it's sub-folders. The script removes the groups identifier tag from the message subject line.
Chris

PocoMail 4.8.0.4400 running in Slackware64 w/Wine
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Postby chrisretusn » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:37 am

BTW, I tried setting up an OnAdd event using my incoming filters. Same result as yours. Message added to the folder with the OnAdd event using filter copied the messages vice moving them.
Chris

PocoMail 4.8.0.4400 running in Slackware64 w/Wine
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Postby ChrisKnight » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:08 am

chrisretusn wrote:Not sure what the specifics of what you are attempting.


I'm organizing incoming email much like you are doing. I look at the In and move certain senders to certain folders.

I am also using it for organizing various types of spam (drug, fakes, phishing, stocks, 419, etc). When the junk filter sends something to the junk box the onAdd is supposed to move the emails in the correct subfolders of junk so my script reporting scripts that sends specific types of spam to the right agencies and organizations who are fighting the particular spam. For example, a spam reporting to be from a bank to update my account details is going to be phishing spam and I can send this to two government sites, pirt, knujon phish address and spamcop all with the same script.

Essentially I am trying to use it to automate tasks I could do by hand but take time from doing something I'd rather be doing. If I can spend a few minutes and write events,fiters and scripts to do it for me then this program has done for me what software is supposed to do, make my life easier. :)

BTW, I tried setting up an OnAdd event using my incoming filters. Same result as yours. Message added to the folder with the OnAdd event using filter copied the messages vice moving them


You have additionally confirmed this. You are the forth person I know of to do so, really believe it is a bug.

~Chris
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Postby chrisretusn » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:56 am

Now you've given me idea's! :lol:

ChrisKnight wrote:You have additionally confirmed this. You are the forth person I know of to do so, really believe it is a bug.


After testing this out yesterday I sent an Email to support via Help, Email Support, Email Support... menu item. This morning I had a reply. (Another big reason I use PocoMail. :D ) They are aware of the problem, hopefully it will be in the next release.
Chris

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Postby ChrisKnight » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:51 pm

chrisretusn wrote:I have had success in using OnAdd events using scripts. I set up filters to move the messages to specified a folder/sub-folders that have the OnAdd event associated. The filter moves the message to the folder and then the OnAdd event takes over to act on the message.


As I discovered another instance today where onAdd won't work as expected your post came to mind and I'm curious if you could give a more precise example of how you are useing onAdd and if it does indeed move the messages instead of copy them, or are you only using onAdd to trigger a script?

~Chris
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Postby chrisretusn » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:14 pm

I use Incoming filters to do the moving for messages as they are received. The OnAdd events make modifications to the messages as they are moved in to their folders.
Chris

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