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Poco Forums • View topic - Pocomail/Barca Future?

Pocomail/Barca Future?

Discussion not related specifically to one of the topics below

Moderators: Eric, Tomas, robin

Postby Eric » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:53 am

J-Mac wrote:
Eric wrote:Indeed, there's no sign PSI stopped developing further their products. :)
Everything you have posted here is news to me - I had to pick myself up from the floor and make sure I was really awake!
Hope I didn't surprise you too much. Bad for your health. :lol:
This is great news! I inquired about PE back before PM4 was released, and at that time you did not have any information, and PSI was keeping very mum (And they are still).
At that time I didn't have any information yet, nor did PSI reveal anything to me.
myInfoToGo will be released, although a bit overdue to unforseen circumstances, I guess.

I do know that MITG will be priced less then PE and I guess again you'll get a special price when upgrading from PE. :)
When you say "PPC sync", do you mean..... PPC sync???
Yes, I do mean PPC sync, so watch the forum when it will be announced or PocoReport. Palm is unfortunately a no go. :?
As in Pocket PC synchronization?
YES
As in Window Mobile devices finally being unchained from Outlook?? (Oh, I think I just wet myself!! :oops: ).
Unfortunately I still own my Palm E2, but who knows what will come.
I thought I was keeping up pretty faithfully here in the forums - and I have been checking the PSI main website pages regularly every week - I did not know any of this news.
But then again you're not as close to PSI as I am, so you don't get any inside information.
Actually, I was in complete agreement with neo that PSI seemed to have virtually disappeared from the face of the earth. Not that I expect a continual presence from them here in the forum, but an appearance now and then would certainly keep users a bit less inclined to consider other avenues when they feel that there are no ears at all for their hopes and suggestions to fall on.
Slaven responded whenever he could to my PM's in order to help someone I couldn't help. Jim also posted once.
PSI is present, although not all the time, but IMO they listen to enhancement requests, bug reports and so on.
They won't always respond to those posts, because that takes time, which I experience all the time.
Final decision about that, rest in their hands.
This news is tremendously refreshing! While not addressing everything I would personally hope for from a features and functionality standpoint, it is certainly something solid to grab hold of in what seemed an otherwise dark period of formerly innovative PSI development.
Can't address everything, because although I'm close to PSI, I'm not from PSI, so I don't have a lot of inside information, which I may post about. :?
Bravo! And thank you for the update, Eric. :D
You're welcome & let's see what PSI has in store next. Maybe you'll wet yourself again. :wink:
Eric
 

Postby J-Mac » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:53 am

That's a shame that they won't be developing a Palm sync also. While I was hoping more for PPC because that's the platform I am presently most involved in, I was also a Palm user for a number of years. I even worked to develop some software for the Palm OS - that was back when Hawk first left and formed Handspring.

I thought that Palm still had enough market life left for developing some new third party applications. I'm sorry that PSI, for whatever reason, can no longer work on developing the Palm sync. I know that they already spent a good deal of time on that. Unless this last Palm OS version released offers less access to an API for third party development. I'm far enough removed that I don't know what that situation is currently.

And I know firsthand just how nearly impossible it is to gnaw any info out of Nokia or S-E regarding access to hooks within all of the Symbian OS / UIQ series - They want all software revenue to themselves, and have made that abundantly clear!

Anyway, I am really excited now about this news regarding all the PSI updates coming in the now-foreseeable future!

I certainly hope that PSI has gotten Slaven some help - we sure don't want him overworked right into early retirement!

Thanks again Eric, Slaven, and Jim for this great news!

(How many more minutes??)

(Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet...) :D
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Postby JD » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:57 am

MonBidoux wrote:Personally, i don't see the huge advantages of IMAP anymore. Especially with the advent of GMail and it's conversation view and incredible search abilities!


So why use Pocomail then? :)

Yes, I have several Gmail accounts but I don't use them for anything important. I have my own email tied to my domain, hosted by someone I trust more than Gmail. Google is smart, by keeping the beta tag on Gmail forever, it relieves them of any accountability. For any and every problem you may enounter with Gmail, all they have to do is laughingly point to the "beta" tag.

Thanks for your suggestions, but I guess I'll stick with Thunderbird for now. I'll keep checking on the status of Pocomail.

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Postby J-Mac » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:28 pm

Eric wrote:
neo wrote:International versions are coming soon!
What does soon mean??
For me it means when it's ready for release.
This is why I say that Barca seems to be an abondoned software, all we need is just a post from Poco systems giving some aproximated dates of release and plans.
No, it's not abandonned software.

Eric,

I replied to your post here with excitement once. However that was three months ago, and I have seen no indication that any development is going on at all. Nothing to reassure current users that this is still a "live" program; that it is not indeed abandoned.

As Pocomail falls further and further behind the times - and behind the necessities of doing business in this day and age - without addressing any of the features that I see requested daily, the more user market they are losing. Actually, when users DO request features that are considered "musts" in most good email clients, they are often blasted by the few ancients around here with heads planted firmly in the sand.

Truly sad...
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Postby Eric » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:52 am

J-Mac wrote:I replied to your post here with excitement once. However that was three months ago, and I have seen no indication that any development is going on at all. Nothing to reassure current users that this is still a "live" program; that it is not indeed abandoned.
Although it may seem to you that no development is going on, I can tell you they're working on it. :)
For MITG they're just waiting for the U3 certification and for support a ticket system has been put in place and last but not least Support problems are going to be followed up a lot better.
As Pocomail falls further and further behind the times - and behind the necessities of doing business in this day and age - without addressing any of the features that I see requested daily, the more user market they are losing.
You're only making guesses about them losing market share.
I'm only guessing too, but adressing the many requests from users isn't all that easy. What's more important?
Features which may break something else without proper testing. :?
Actually, when users DO request features that are considered "musts" in most good email clients, they are often blasted by the few ancients around here with heads planted firmly in the sand.
I'm not against new features and some of them I find really interesting. It's however up to PSI to prioritize those requests. What will be added and what will be left out, we'll only discover it during the next beta.
Always interesting to see with what they come up next. 8)
Truly sad...
No need to feel sad, instead be happy about what's coming. :D
Eric
 

Postby Tomas » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:23 am

That's a shame that they won't be developing a Palm sync also.

I think Palm mismanaged their developer relations mightily over years.

I have few other applications in use where I was hoping for Palm sync or counterpart, yet the developers mostly told "no way, given how Palm does things" (they actually all told "sometime, maybe", but it's not hard to read between the lines).

On a Palm front, I was very surprised when I understood from a die-hard Palm developer of a popular Palm-only outliner, that he suddenly started considering other platforms. It even felt like he thinks that his Palm app is mature enough, in other words I think there will be almost no further development. That's from a guy who spent years tweaking the annoyances and incompatibilities introduced not only between each major Palm version, but also with each different Palm handheld brand. Yes, even die-hard Palm developers are getting fed-up, gradually, though it's a long process with them...same for us die-hard Palm users ;)

when users DO request features that are considered "musts" in most good email clients, they are often blasted by the few ancients around here with heads planted firmly in the sand


I didn't see people blasting new feature requests, do you have some examples? Yeah when someone looks for a thing which is not achievable with current version, it's only natural to suggest some way that works now, eventhough it might look a bit awkward way sometime, but it certainly has nothing to do with feature blasting. Though I see it can be sometimes understood as such, but it isn't!
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Postby Slaven » Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:05 am

One important point I made in the post that unfortunately got lost is: if you have a feature you consider is important for us to be competitive please feel free to send me a message with the list. I also want to let you know we have listened to your previous suggestions and the latest set of revisions for the next major update will make a lot of you happy. :)
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Postby J-Mac » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:08 pm

Slaven wrote:One important point I made in the post that unfortunately got lost is: if you have a feature you consider is important for us to be competitive please feel free to send me a message with the list. I also want to let you know we have listened to your previous suggestions and the latest set of revisions for the next major update will make a lot of you happy. :)

Odd how the posts get "lost", isn't it? My post mentioning yours disappearing is now gone too.

Someone sure is busy in the background! I wish as much effort went to other areas...
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Postby J-Mac » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:16 pm

Tomas wrote:
when users DO request features that are considered "musts" in most good email clients, they are often blasted by the few ancients around here with heads planted firmly in the sand


I didn't see people blasting new feature requests, do you have some examples? Yeah when someone looks for a thing which is not achievable with current version, it's only natural to suggest some way that works now, eventhough it might look a bit awkward way sometime, but it certainly has nothing to do with feature blasting. Though I see it can be sometimes understood as such, but it isn't!

Just look at any threads (Many in this very forum) regarding poorly rendered HTML, problems with forwarding newletters, replying to HTML. Tomas, I have even seen you post in such threads. Now you know nothing? Really? Just ask Eric about almost any topic we have discussed! :D

Of course those threads might disappear very soon also; big brother is apparently keeping a close eye on his forum.
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Postby Tomas » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:03 pm

J-Mac wrote:Just look at any threads (Many in this very forum) regarding poorly rendered HTML, problems with forwarding newletters, replying to HTML. Tomas, I have even seen you post in such threads. Now you know nothing? Really? Just ask Eric about almost any topic we have discussed! :D

I remember the problems, but not any such thread blasted, especially not by me I hope. Though I have been missing quite often in recent months, and only visiting threads of interest, so if I missed something... . In fact, I probably experience more of such problems than you, because I have some messages coming in non-ascii charsets, which is not 100% bulletproof at the moment either, especially when in HTML.

PS. You wrote about feature suggestions blasted, not problems, thus I was a bit confused.
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Postby Slaven » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:31 pm

J-Mac wrote:
Slaven wrote:One important point I made in the post that unfortunately got lost is: if you have a feature you consider is important for us to be competitive please feel free to send me a message with the list. I also want to let you know we have listened to your previous suggestions and the latest set of revisions for the next major update will make a lot of you happy. :)

Odd how the posts get "lost", isn't it? My post mentioning yours disappearing is now gone too.

Someone sure is busy in the background! I wish as much effort went to other areas...


I'm the ultimate admin for this board so I guess it was me trying to silence the criticism... :?
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Postby Slaven » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:32 pm

J-Mac wrote:Just look at any threads (Many in this very forum) regarding poorly rendered HTML, problems with forwarding newletters, replying to HTML. Tomas, I have even seen you post in such threads. Now you know nothing? Really? Just ask Eric about almost any topic we have discussed! :D

Of course those threads might disappear very soon also; big brother is apparently keeping a close eye on his forum.


I know what was said in the past, I was just giving everyone an open invitation to share their feedback with us, there's really nothing sinister about it!
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Postby J-Mac » Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:07 pm

Tomas wrote:
J-Mac wrote:Just look at any threads (Many in this very forum) regarding poorly rendered HTML, problems with forwarding newletters, replying to HTML. Tomas, I have even seen you post in such threads. Now you know nothing? Really? Just ask Eric about almost any topic we have discussed! :D

I remember the problems, but not any such thread blasted, especially not by me I hope. Though I have been missing quite often in recent months, and only visiting threads of interest, so if I missed something... . In fact, I probably experience more of such problems than you, because I have some messages coming in non-ascii charsets, which is not 100% bulletproof at the moment either, especially when in HTML.

PS. You wrote about feature suggestions blasted, not problems, thus I was a bit confused.


Sorry, Tomas - I was certainly not trying to confuse you!

For one, HTML rendering that allows forwarding of HTML messages without the complete loss of readability has been a feature request many times in the past, but particularly in the last year or 18 months. However such posts/threads usually turn quite adversarial as some members seem to think that HTML email is not professional and not commonly used by legitimate emailers. Others, of course, argue that HTML messages are quite the norm in business communications today, and that they must use additional email clients in order to adequately handle their volumes of HTML messages. By handle I mean read, reply, and forward. All of which are presently not handled well, if at all for some cases, by Pocomail.

Also, MAPI usage - or at least a form of it similar to Eudora's MAPI - would allow many with bonafide business applications that rely on MAPI to stop using Outlook just for their MAPI needs, and having Pocomail as a backup, since MAPI requires a compliant client to be set as default.

I know that many see these - both MAPI and HTML email - as security risks. I say that make high security the default, but allow users to configure the features that they specifically need. Why deny everyone for the concerns of only some users. Plus, I believe firmly that if an user has even barely adequate security programs (Anti-Virus, Anti-Spyware, and Firewall) installed and updated on their PC, that MAPI and HTML are not then a concern. Unless one believes that Pocomail should carry the burden of PC security for those users who do not use A-V, A-S, or Firewalls. I cannot find evidence of any malware infections caused by MAPI or HTML email that would not survive even the most basic of PC security applications. If you know of any such cases, please point it or them out to me - I would be extremely surprised. And I am talking about in the current millennium!

Another fairly common request is to allow attaching existing messages to an outgoing message. Presently you cannot do that in Pocomail or Barca. Of course you can save them as .eml files and attach them, or use Forward as Attachment, but too many businesses do not allow such attachments to incoming email messages.

Have you truly not seen such requests here in the Pocomail/Barca forums? I know that occasionally threads/posts that are outside of the usual "Pocomail" way of thinking are removed from the forum. I have seen that on a number of occasions. So that may be why you cannot always find them.
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Postby Sandy » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:40 am

I can't dispute what J-Mac says except to say that my concerns are far more fundamental. How HTML ought to be handled, or what PSI's approach to security is, can be at least debated. I believe my concerns with Poco have no possible opposition.

I could say more, but I will limit myself to 2 major issues:

1. a bug/enhancement tracking system
2. fixing known, reported, fully reproducable bugs that exist in already implemented basic functions

How can anyone argue against these 2 items? And yet I have been asking for these 2 items to be addressed for well over a year. I haven't come to this forum for several months because I just flat out got sick and tired of doing all the work to discover, test, and document a bug (irrefutable bugs), only to have PSI lose track that the bug was even reported (much less fixed). I've asked PSI why there does not seem to be any bug tracking process (other than Slaven's memory perhaps) so many times I tire of hearing it myself. I am posting this response now only because I have some renewed hope that with Tomas in place (I did read that didn't I) PSI will at long last implement a bug tracking system which will make my efforts worthwhile once again. If not, I will sink back into the woodwork.

Something concrete? How about the bug that repeats email addresses on the To: line. It's fully reproducable; I've reported it several times over the last 18+ months with precise step by step instructions on how to reproduce it; and it has been confirmed by other users (I leave it to PSI to search for my posts on this bug since I don't want to waste my time when my confidence is so low that anyone at PSI will pursue the matter). I can't imagine a bug more fundamental than screwing up the basic process of addressing an email msg with an email client.

I was once a huge supporter of Poco and defended it to the hilt against the complainers who were unwilling to do the homework required to give PSI enough data so bugs could be reproduced. I am no longer even a quiet supporter......I am simply a disappointed user.
Last edited by Sandy on Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Slaven » Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:39 am

J-Mac: Thanks for the notes, you hit on the two items that are close to the top of the priority list for us. We do record ALL suggestions, though as the industry changes people want different things with time so it's always good to be open to new feature suggestions.

And no, we don't censor these forums (I was being sarcastic :) ).

Sandy: It is nice to see you again! I want to assure you that my brain is not the place where we keep bug reports (trust me, it's not a good place to keep anything you want remembered!). Apart from our existing bug and suggestions database we are now also using the support ticketing system to track suggestions and bug reports. The only problem you may have with it is that it's not public. The previous incarnation of the public database didn't quite work as it took more time to manage it then it saved by having bug reports internally managed.

Regarding all the small bugs reported - we don't forget, some have already been fixed.
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