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Poco Forums • View topic - Classify as Junk - doesn't work as expected?

Classify as Junk - doesn't work as expected?

Discussion on Bayesian and standard junk mail filters

Moderators: Eric, Tomas, robin, Michael

Classify as Junk - doesn't work as expected?

Postby cbiweb » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:01 am

I keep getting a certain spam message that makes it to my Inbox instead of the Junk Mail box. So I right click the message and choose Junk Mail Filtering > Classify as Junk, then I right click the same message again and choose Junk Mail Filtering > Classify as Junk and Move. The message is then moved to my Junk Mail box.

But when that message comes through again, it once again gets filtered to the Inbox instead of Junk Mail.

How many times do I have to classify it as junk before Poco learns that it really is junk?
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Postby cbiweb » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:05 pm

hello?
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Re: Classify as Junk - doesn't work as expected?

Postby Eric » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:18 am

cbiweb wrote:How many times do I have to classify it as junk before Poco learns that it really is junk?
Don't know how many times you've to click. :?
You could however increase the junk score manually for such messages.

Have a look around in Junk Mail Filtering, so you'll be able to find some advice on how to improve it.

Sorry for the late reply, but I've been busy preparing the birthday of my kids. :D
Eric
 

Postby speerga » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:38 pm

Haven't been here to post in some time, but this thread reflects, once again, an ongoing problem with Pocomail for at least the last few years.

I can say personally, from having classified literally 10,000's of email both good and bad, that Pocomail's junk mail filtering is 1) almost worthless against most junk mail currently out there, and, 2) is absurdly hard to adjust/combine/train so that it does ANY good.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I've had the history which proves it. And even a cursory glance at threads going back for years at this forum will demonstrate the same frustrations.

I really, really, REALLY wish the Pocomail folks could simply implement junk mail filtering similar to the ridiculously good junk mail filtering that Thunderbird has had from the start. I totally do not understand why something like that hasn't happened over years of puzzling and complaining by tons of Pocomail users??

I have a gmail account which has been rock solid at filtering spam. Until about 6 months ago -- now a couple of dozen spam get through that account everyday. It's distressing.

But when I try downloading a couple of months using Thunderbird -- nearly all are caught. Switching back to Pocomail -- none of them are caught.

I realize it's pretty much pointless to have posted this because, alas, no one at pocomail has given priority to junk mail filtering, all the Pocomail devotees here have repeatedly either "flamed" those with frustrations that express them much, or proceeded to offer complicated mumbo jumbo about adjusting multiple filtering rules, etc., to never adequately solve the problem.

Unfortunately, Thunderbird has proven to be the most god-awfully slow email client I've ever used, or I would probably abandon all the truly good, useful Pocomail features just to get rid of the stupid spam Pocomail won't handle.

Ah, well. Good luck on solving your spam issues, cbiweb. And congrats to those of you who've actually gotten Pocomail to effectively filter spam. After more something more than 3 or 4 years of trying, I have no answer.

Oh, for what it's worth, I've tried running both Spamihilator and Popfile with Pocomail. They work VERY well -- but Pocomail gives false error messages and slows, sometimes crashes, with either and both programs.

*big sigh*

Gary Speer
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Postby Tomas » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:45 am

speerga wrote:I realize it's pretty much pointless to have posted this because, alas, no one at pocomail has given priority to junk mail filtering, all the Pocomail devotees here have repeatedly either "flamed" those with frustrations that express them much, or proceeded to offer complicated mumbo jumbo about adjusting multiple filtering rules, etc., to never adequately solve the problem.

It's not pointless, it's a good feedback. It's pretty well known, that while Pocomail's junk mail filtering works for some, there are others for whom it doesn't.

From my experiences so far, there are many variables stepping into play. There are geeks who just like to play with all the settings and experiment a lot, but I have a suggestion for the regular users who don't want to spend much time on that - if it doesn't work, use something else (K9, Spambayes, ...there are many others..), until you find what works best for you.

I think I have heard from TB users who claimed their spam filtering doesn't work for them, and I know from my own experience that Gmail filtering is absolutely unreliable and pretty much useless, as no matter how much spam they catch (almost everything), I have many good emails in their junk folder, thus the spam filtering is pointless as I have anyway wade through all the spam to find the good stuff.
That's again, for different experiences for different users, no matter whether Pocomail, Gmail or whatever.

Oh, for what it's worth, I've tried running both Spamihilator and Popfile with Pocomail. They work VERY well -- but Pocomail gives false error messages and slows, sometimes crashes, with either and both programs.

There are users running both for whom it works. Maybe there are more factors at work - do you have some more details as for the errors going on?

There are too many factors and combinations at play, and each user might have different experience, as emailing and spam filtering are rather complex fields.
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Postby speerga » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:33 am

Tomas,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate what you've said, and much of what I said last evening in my original post to this thread was born out of several years of frustrations, probably a bit "overreacting" for a post in this thread.

As for the error messages, whenever I run Popfile with Pocomail I get on average every 2nd or 3rd time I check email I get the error message in my status bar that there was an error and that I should check the user log for the problem. But when I check the user log, there are no errors listed.

There also are some Popfile issues that cause it to lose its connection with localhost, just seemingly arbitrarily not opening the interface from time to time. All that, of course, probably has nothing to do with Pocomail.

Spamihilator simply slows Pocomail's email checking waaayy waaayy down.

Spambayes, I was never able to figure out to check all my email accounts in Pocomail, plus it doesn't appear to do SSL email, which is necessary to get gmail.

I should add, any third-party stuff which won't receive and filter gmail and its required secure connection simply isn't an option. Three of the five email accounts I need to use Pocomail for are gmail accounts.

I surely would appreciate anyone who could give me details, either through a PM here, an email to me at gspeer at gmail dot com, or a post in the forum, a good setup for something like Popfiles and/or Spambayes, or whatever.

My apologies if I've taken this thread off-topic, although I think my two posts have related pretty directly to Pocomail's junk mail filtering -- good, bad, or whatever.

Gary Speer
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Postby Tomas » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 am

No need for any apologies, it's perfectly understandable kind of frustration. You are right, Spambayes doesn't support SSL, from short research, it seems people either autoforward from Gmail to another POP account, and download from there, or they use Stunnel. It's far from simple, here is some write-up, while for Eudora, it still shall apply to Pocomail:
http://www.engelassociates.net/email.html
(Though that, admittedly, doesn't look like something I would myself be willing to try voluntarily.)
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Re: Classify as Junk - doesn't work as expected?

Postby Tomas » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:27 am

cbiweb wrote:How many times do I have to classify it as junk before Poco learns that it really is junk?

There is no set number, it depends on many variables.
It's a bayesian learning filter, not a black-list filter. You can use word lists part of filtering interface if that will help.
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Postby imtrobin » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:50 am

Frankly, I didn't get Pocomail junk filtering working well but my host implemented black listing (I think Spam Assassin) on the mail servers, that cut down quite a lot of junk mails, from 100+ a day to 5.
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