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Poco Forums • View topic - Pocomail is Not saving Drafts

Pocomail is Not saving Drafts

Help and advice on using PocoMail

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Pocomail is Not saving Drafts

Postby Stormblade » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:02 am

Hey all,

I'm kinda irritated right now. I spent the past hour composing an email to my mom and my machine locked up. Not something that happens often. I figured well Pocomail saves drafts periodically so I should have most of it there.

I look in the draft folder and all I see are a few messages from a year ago which I'm assuming had some error. But the email I'd just been composing was gone.

I tried to look for a setting or something so I could see if maybe the interval was set too high or something but was unable to find it. I searched the manual and still found nothing.

I do not wish to try and remember to manually save a draft as I'm typing so please help me figure out what happened and how I can prevent it from happening again.

I'm running version Pocomail 4.8
windows 7 64-bit Ultimate
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Re: Pocomail is Not saving Drafts

Postby Eric » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:30 pm

Stormblade wrote:I do not wish to try and remember to manually save a draft as I'm typing so please help me figure out what happened and how I can prevent it from happening again.
Sorry, but manual saving would be the only way to keep your message.

You can't however predict when a computer is going to lock up. :?
My guess there's something wrong with your computer.
Perhaps defragmentation can help, but I think the problem is a bit deeper.
Check the background processes, so you'll know what's eating your RAM en eventually deactivate or remove it.
Or perhaps there's a conflict between software installed on your computer.

Hope that helps a bit to prevent data loss. ;)
Eric
 

Postby Stormblade » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:08 am

Perhaps I misunderstood what I read in Pocomail's manual under 4.2.2 it says:

"Any message will also be automatically saved to Draft folder at regular time intervals while you are composing the message, so if your power goes out while you were composing a long message you will find it later in the Draft folder."

Perhaps we should start with an explanation of what this means because it certainly did not happen. If this were happening then my computer locking up wouldn't have caused me to lose my entire message.

Thank you for your advice on troubleshooting my computer, however at this time I am more interested in the fact that what I read in the Pocomail manual did not happen and I'd like to know if that is a bug or perhaps there is some setting that is turned off.

Having to manually save is IMO nuts. The feature described above is not new. Word Processors have been doing it for years and Pocomail said it does as well yet it did not.
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Postby Eric » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:40 am

Stormblade wrote:Perhaps we should start with an explanation of what this means because it certainly did not happen. If this were happening then my computer locking up wouldn't have caused me to lose my entire message.
Did you compress your Draft folders, as well as all the rest :?:
Sure Poco saves the message, but since I don't know the interval when that happens, I'm just guessing here.

If the lock up occurred when the message wasn't saved yet, then of course nothing will be found.
Thank you for your advice on troubleshooting my computer, however at this time I am more interested in the fact that what I read in the Pocomail manual did not happen and I'd like to know if that is a bug or perhaps there is some setting that is turned off.
See above about compressing your folders. The index could have been corrupted by what happened at that time.
Else it's gone.

However your computer shouldn't have to lock up all of a sudden, so that means something is definitely wrong and should be investigated further to solve it. :)
Having to manually save is IMO nuts. The feature described above is not new. Word Processors have been doing it for years and Pocomail said it does as well yet it did not. :?
I always save it manually to avoid losing my message. OK, it's my preference.
Even in Word it's not automatically set, so in case something happens ...

I can't explain it further what happened on your computer, but maybe that message is still present. It only doesn't show due to a corrupt index. Only compressing will help here.

It's worth a shot. If it doesn't work, then look into the Drafts folder with Explorer.

Maybe someone else as another suggestion

Good luck with it. ;)
Eric
 

Postby Stormblade » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:06 am

Did you compress your Draft folders, as well as all the rest Question
Sure Poco saves the message, but since I don't know the interval when that happens, I'm just guessing here.

If the lock up occurred when the message wasn't saved yet, then of course nothing will be found.
Unless the compressing happens automatically then no I did not. I'm not sure how to compress my folders. I too don't know the interval and spent a frustrating time trying to find a setting that would allow me to change it or at least look at it. I will say this. I'd spent almost an hour on the email before the lockup. I would guess that a default interval for saving would be set to something like 10 minutes maybe? Certain not more than an hour.

However your computer shouldn't have to lock up all of a sudden, so that means something is definitely wrong and should be investigated further to solve it. Smile

Forgive me if I seemed short. I have to often deal with technical support where they are trying to help me solve something that I'm pretty sure has nothing to do with the problem. I trouble shoot computers and am quite familiar with them.

While what you say it true it does not IMO have anything to do with the issue I've come here to try and solve. It's a separate issue which could have many causes. It could have been heat related, it could be a bad driver, it could be a bad memory stick, it could be a conflict between pieces of software. I tend to keep my computer on 24/7. My computer does not lock up often. In fact, my machine had been running without a lockup 24/7 for the past month.

However, regardless of why my machine is locking up, Pocomail does not seem to be behaving in the manner that I expected it to. The purpose of the automatic saving is as a recovery option. Clearly preventing the need for the recovery is ideal but the recovery option should still allow recovery.

I always save it manually to avoid losing my message. OK, it's my preference.
Even in Word it's not automatically set, so in case something happens ...
That is certainly your preference, however, Pocomail has a feature that let me down.

I preformed a couple of tests. I started up a new email and left it there for 30 minutes. I went into the draft folder and found it there. I then wanted to see how soon so I hit reply and typed a couple of characters and opened the Draft folder so I could see when it appeared there. It showed up in the Draft folder in a minute or so. So it IS saving, so you might be right about corruption or something but if that is preventing the recovery option from allowing me to recover then something needs to be looked at.

I've never needed this option in Pocomail but the first time I actually needed it, it failed me so I'd like to know why and whether there is anything I can do to fix that. Other software manages to allow this sort of recovery.

It would be nice to be able to set the saving interval as well but I've seen no interface for this.
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Postby Eric » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:17 am

Stormblade wrote:Unless the compressing happens automatically then no I did not. I'm not sure how to compress my folders.
Select your Draft folder and go to Folder > Compress Folder.
I too don't know the interval and spent a frustrating time trying to find a setting that would allow me to change it or at least look at it.
There's no setting to be found in Poco. Poco does that automatically although I'm not aware about the interval. :?
While what you say it true it does not IMO have anything to do with the issue I've come here to try and solve. It's a separate issue which could have many causes.
Agreed, it could have many possibilities.
On the other hand it could also affect Poco, by that I mean corrupting your index files. Only compressing your folders will rebuild those indexes. :)
In short the two problems you're having are probably related.
It could have been heat related, it could be a bad driver, it could be a bad memory stick, it could be a conflict between pieces of software. I tend to keep my computer on 24/7. My computer does not lock up often. In fact, my machine had been running without a lockup 24/7 for the past month.
My laptop runs also 24/7, but it never locked up.
Of course it can always happen, you never know with Windows and the software installed.
The purpose of the automatic saving is as a recovery option. Clearly preventing the need for the recovery is ideal but the recovery option should still allow recovery.
There's an automatic saving, but as explained before it's unknown to me when it occurs.
See also my answer above about compressing.
That is certainly your preference, however, Pocomail has a feature that let me down.
It's still not proven that that feature let you down.
No offense meant by it.
The message could still be there, but it simply doesn't show due to the corruption of your index files caused by the lock up.
I preformed a couple of tests. I started up a new email and left it there for 30 minutes. I went into the draft folder and found it there. I then wanted to see how soon so I hit reply and typed a couple of characters and opened the Draft folder so I could see when it appeared there. It showed up in the Draft folder in a minute or so. So it IS saving, so you might be right about corruption or something but if that is preventing the recovery option from allowing me to recover then something needs to be looked at.
That's what I was trying to explain. It does save the message.
In this case something else happened, so the message doesn't appear when restarting Poco. -> corrupt index.
Have a look into your Mail folder > Draft, perhaps it's there.
I've never needed this option in Pocomail but the first time I actually needed it, it failed me so I'd like to know why and whether there is anything I can do to fix that. Other software manages to allow this sort of recovery.
No need for other software, just compress your folders.
It would be nice to be able to set the saving interval as well but I've seen no interface for this.
Not available in the interface, sorry.
That would mean an enhancement request for the next build, in case PSI deems it necessary. ;)
Eric
 

Postby Stormblade » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:22 am

Select your Draft folder and go to Folder > Compress Folder.
Ahh. Tried that and nothing magically showed up. But it probably overwrote it. I had already redone the email and just manually saved it periodically just in case.

There's no setting to be found in Poco. Poco does that automatically although I'm not aware about the interval.
Ugh.

Agreed, it could have many possibilities.
On the other hand it could also affect Poco, by that I mean corrupting your index files. Only compressing your folders will rebuild those indexes. Smile In short the two problems you're having are probably related.
Understood. I didn't say they weren't related but that they were two separate problems. The stability of my machine may have caused Pocomail's indexes to become corrupted when it locked up but that to me makes me wonder how Pocomail is handling the saving and why it wasn't able to detect that this corruption had occurred and take action. This feature is specifically there to deal with a computer that either suddenly lost power or locks up. And if it got corrupted when that happens then clearly there's something going on.

Here's an analogy to explain what I'm saying. You have a roof that occasionally leaks in this one spot. You get a bucket and put it under there to save your rug. Now the roof hasn't leaked in months but one day it leaked. The bucket you set up for some reason did not hold the water and it leaked out on to the rug.

So I go to the folks who made the bucket to see if I can figure out why my rug is wet when I thought the bucket was supposed to hold the water. That's how I look at it. Yes the leak in the roof is A problem but not the problem I came to try and solve.
My laptop runs also 24/7, but it never locked up.
Of course it can always happen, you never know with Windows and the software installed.
Right and different software, different usage, different hardware etc. For example, my Linux box ran for years and never locked up or had to be rebooted. But then again I used it very differently than my machine here. This machine I program on, I test software on, I play games on, I run various server applications and database servers on, etc.

I also tend to do many things at the same time. While I was writing that email I had WoW running on one screen, had a video playing in another and had some downloads going.

But again, to refer to my above analogy, that's all about fixing the roof which I'll be looking into but I'd still like to know why the bucket didn't perform the way I'd expected.

It's still not proven that that feature let you down.
No offense meant by it.
The message could still be there, but it simply doesn't show due to the corruption of your index files caused by the lock up.
Understood and I compressed the folder but no message magically appeared. This could be because I'd already redone the email and perhaps it overwrote it.

But here's my point. There's a program I use that allows you to mark things for download. It adds these to a queue which is constantly updated. I had a system lockup. The queue was corrupted. The program was able to detect this and rebuild the queue.

So if you're right, I'm wondering why Pocomail doesn't have it's own recovery options to detect and deal with that sort of corruption. To detect it was improperly shut down and check its indexes. Not saying it doesn't do that already. I don't know. I was on a find quest to see if anyone know what was happening. I can speculate but that's about it.

But for now I guess the point is moot. If this situation arises again and I don't see my partial email in the Draft folder, I will compress it before I do anything else and see if that helps.
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Postby chrisretusn » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:53 am

On a whim I decided to test this out. I opened a new message and gave it a subject of TEST, then started typing something. Then killed PocoMail as in a freeze up or other problem. When I started PocoMail there was nothing in draft.

Next I positioned the new messages window so I could see when my TEST messages shows up in the Draft folder. After 60 seconds the TEST message appeared in the Draft folder. I then selected that message do changes would appear in the preview and typed some more. Approximately sixty seconds later, the changes appeared. I did it one more time and sixty seconds later the changes appeared. I then waited for a full two minutes without typing a thing.

With the draft message still in the Draft folder and the message windows open I then I killed PocoMail. On restart of PocoMail that draft messages was gone.

So I think there is something here to what Stormblade is saying. While that messages was in the Draft folder on the restart of PocoMail it was gone.

That said a look in to the Draft directory shows several (7) messages in the format of 08469488.eml. (That was the draft I was just testing). There is nothing showing in the Draft folder. Compressing that folder does nothing.
Chris

PocoMail 4.8.0.4400 running in Slackware64 w/Wine
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Postby dskirk » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:12 am

I share the frustration - and I don't have any official answers... but I went to poco.ini and changed 'backupevery' from 0 to 1 and 'saveskipped' from 0 to 1 and I see that my test email is saved every minute if I enter any content into it. Would be nice to get an official confirmation, but getting it backed up every minute of text entry does seem to address the issue.
david
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Postby Stormblade » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:31 am

Good job on providing a way to reproduce it. I could kick myself for not doing that. I thought about it then dismissed it thinking that killing the process may not produce the same results as the machine locking up but I was wrong.

Perhaps now that it can be consistently reproduced it can be looked into and fixed.
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Postby dskirk » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:26 am

Stormblade wrote:Good job on providing a way to reproduce it. I could kick myself for not doing that. I thought about it then dismissed it thinking that killing the process may not produce the same results as the machine locking up but I was wrong.

Perhaps now that it can be consistently reproduced it can be looked into and fixed.


well, I guess it's a matter of perception. To me, it's now "fixed", at least for me. the ini file is simple text and easily changed. I've changed several PM attributes this way (such as window size) and i like this flexibility.
david
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Postby Stormblade » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:32 am

dskirk wrote:
Stormblade wrote:Good job on providing a way to reproduce it. I could kick myself for not doing that. I thought about it then dismissed it thinking that killing the process may not produce the same results as the machine locking up but I was wrong.

Perhaps now that it can be consistently reproduced it can be looked into and fixed.


well, I guess it's a matter of perception. To me, it's now "fixed", at least for me. the ini file is simple text and easily changed. I've changed several PM attributes this way (such as window size) and i like this flexibility.
david
Actually I think there was a bit of confusion because I hit reply and didn't quote. My bad. I was actually replying to chrisretusn who was able to reproduce the problem I encountered.

See when I started this thread I'd never concerned myself with the Draft folder. So when my system locked up and I went into it and couldn't find my message I'd assumed it wasn't being saved. This was not true. Later tests showed that it was indeed being saved regularly. What was happening was that it was being wiped out somehow when Pocomail was shutdown improperly such as when the system locks up.

The whole point of making regular backups is to be able to recover from this type of thing and it looks like Pocomail has a bug/issue where this is concerned.

Unless you were saying that changing the ini file solved that? But I didn't get that from what you were saying.
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Postby dskirk » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:37 am

Stormblade wrote:Unless you were saying that changing the ini file solved that? But I didn't get that from what you were saying.


well, I don't plan to power down just to test this but as I stated, I now get consistent immediate appearance in draft folder now. I used task manager to shut down PM and the message was still there. To me, the issue appears fixed. After starting a message, I can toggle to Explorer and see the message in the draft folder. I've never lost a message.
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Postby Stormblade » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:32 am

dskirk wrote:
Stormblade wrote:Unless you were saying that changing the ini file solved that? But I didn't get that from what you were saying.


well, I don't plan to power down just to test this but as I stated, I now get consistent immediate appearance in draft folder now. I used task manager to shut down PM and the message was still there. To me, the issue appears fixed. After starting a message, I can toggle to Explorer and see the message in the draft folder. I've never lost a message.
I'm at work right now but when I get home I will perform some tests. I'll first try to reproduce the results chrisretusn got. If I can get it to behave that way I will then change the ini and re-run the test and see if it fixes it.

I'll post here once I've done all that. Looking at the settings you mention, it might be that saveskipped that's doing it. If so I would question what it's purpose is and if its interfering with the recovery then maybe it shouldn't be turned off by default.

Oh and getting consistent immediate appearance in the draft folder was never the problem. The problem was the draft disappearing after an improper shutdown which it shouldn't.
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Postby Stormblade » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:35 am

Nope. The ini changes mentioned did not solve the problem for me. I did the following:

1. Opened Pocomail
2. Started a New message
3. Switched to the Draft Folder and waited until I saw my message saved
4. Went to the task manager and ended the process
5. Opened Pocomail and Looked in the Draft Folder and message was not there.

I then made the ini changes mentioned. I set backupevery to 1 and SaveSkipped to 1. The I repeated the steps above but got the same results.

I mentioned in my post that I was running Windows 7 64-bit. Might be useful to mention the OS you guys are using. It may have nothing to do with it but then again it might.
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